azdak: (Default)
azdak ([personal profile] azdak) wrote2020-04-03 03:31 pm
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Statistics

About 3 weeks ago, Austria and the UK had roughly the same number of confirmed cases of coronavirus. A few days later, Austria moved into very strict lockdown, while Boris Johnson blithely adopted Dominic Cummings' ideas about herd immunity and protecting the economy, went around shaking hands with everyone, and caught covid-19 himself. A bit less than 3 weeks later, the UK has had 3,605 coronavirus deaths and Austria has had 168.

Sweden will be the test case. They're following the herd immunity strategy and so far they've only had 333 deaths. Perhaps the Swedes are disciplined enough to keep 1 metre distance from everyone else, wash their hands properly, and not shake hands. Perhaps that will be enough. But it has to be said that the strategy has proved a disaster for the UK.
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Default)

[personal profile] nineveh_uk 2020-04-03 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
I really want to know where Swedes go alpine skiing, and whether it differs from Norway. My impression of the situation in Sweden is that they are experiencing - or are about to - the capital city hotspot problem that other countries are.

Although the government continues to talk absolutely bullshit about testing, I think that the delay in action and accompanying lack of clear communication was the critical part in the UK. Other countries also haven't tested much, but they've done other things that have compensated. The lockdown here now is not less significant in than in other places with lower rates, though there was initially huge vagueness about it. But the population is large, a lot of people travel abroad for a range of reasons (including everyone here who goes skiing in February, the Scottish resorts being closed), there was no messaging about quarantining when returning from hotspots and given the infectiousness, those few days - I think we were only 5ish after Norway - and failure to say what it meant so that e.g. workplaces like mine weren't shutting down quickly enough make a big difference. I read something somewhere the other day about how in this kind of situation the countries what was needed of leaders (they were speaking nationally, but I think it also applies at other levels) was the willingness and ability to take bold, decisive action, and that's the antithesis of Boris Johnson. Take his infamous two columns about Brexit and last minute decision which to submit - that's him all over. Hedge your bets until the last moment, and then jump. Unfortunately, it looks like his gamble with his own life paid off.
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Default)

[personal profile] nineveh_uk 2020-04-04 08:48 am (UTC)(link)
IIRC there's some commonality with the east Asian countries that reacted swiftly being those with experience of SARS, thus knowing from practical experience that they didn't have time to change their minds later. They were punished previously, they're not going to risk it again, and in the case of Taiwan and South Korea also had additional political incentives to act. Whereas Johnson's entire life has been reward for the last-minute action.

Moreover it isn't just Johnson or even his cabinet like that it in the UK. Much as I lay a lot of his personality at the feet of his education, the story of British politics for the past five years in particular has been total unwillingness of political leaders to commit to clearly defined positions, while simultaneously being willing to shout very loudly how much they were sticking to something they'd made up on the back of an envelope despite it's being self-contradictory. And then there's Labour [insert entire thesis here]. We were already coming from behind on the basic culture required.

I'll have to look at what the Netherlands have been doing, they've not really crossed my path hitherto.
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[personal profile] espresso_addict 2020-04-03 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
To be fair, the population of Austria is 8.8 million versus UK 66.4 million, which does account for some of the disparity. Also, according to Wikipedia, London is one of the largest cities in Europe (after Istanbul and Moscow), whereas Austria does not have a comparatively large urban area. Looking at Wikipedia's List of urban areas in Europe, sorted by 2011 urban area population, Birmingham, Manchester and Bradford--Leeds all have a greater population than Vienna.