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posted by [personal profile] azdak at 05:42pm on 06/09/2020 under ,
I'm still splashing around in the shallow end of Asian dramas but my current viewing, "The Story of Minglan" (which I'm enjoying, don't get me wrong) has brought the two outstanding features of "Nirvana in Fire" into very sharp focus. One is Hu Ge's phenomenal performance as Mei Changsu - it's not that there aren't stellar performances among the remaining cast, because there most definitely are, but Mei Changsu is the role with which the whole series stands and falls, and Hu Ge provides one of those once-in-a-generation meldings of actor and role that makes every single scene he's in riveting to watch and raises the game of everyone around him. The other aspect is the plotting. When your protagonist is a strategic genius who spends 12 years preparing his schemes and 53 out of 54 episodes executing them, they need to be good, but Mei Changsu's schemes are on another level altogether. It's like watching a 53 episode version of Fischli and Weiss's The Way Things Go transformed into drama, as click by click the cogwheels interlock and the dominoes fall over, in a combination of meticulously-laid groundwork, brilliant extemporisation, and, when all else fails, a truly impressive talent for trolling. And at another level, the story itself is as brilliantly plotted as any of Mei Changsu's schemes, intricate threads woven with such expertise that even the tiniest details are tied into the main narrative until you suddenly recognise the pattern episodes later. Yes, it has the odd painful lapse (but then even "The Lord of the Rings" has Tom Bombadil, koff koff), and there are some Chinese genre elements that play weirdly to Western audiences, but my God, it's so intricate and far-ranging and convincing, and it means that the emotional beats, when they come, are truly, madly, deeply earned. Don't come to me with your oaths of fealty, people, unless you can overlay them with at least three layers of sub-text, three decades of back story and multiple episodes of character interaction.
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posted by [personal profile] nineveh_uk at 08:58pm on 07/09/2020
Hu Ge's performance really is the fulcrum on which the whole thing is centred, and he does all aspects of the character so well - he convinces the viewer as someone who (with the help of a prophecy) would convince Prince Yu as much as he convinced Jingrui, despite their totally different characters, and much as he enjoys a brilliantly intricate plan well-executed he certainly enjoys the trolling as well. Watching ep 17 with my parents tonight, and you go from him being pissed off with Jing and needling him so he apologises again (Dad: That is a very confused young man.) to being Mr Urbane Scholar at his house-warming party. But none of the different aspects of the character feel inconsistent or disjointed, because we are shown so clearly through the acting and the script where they come from, how they are all the one person.

I do think that when it comes to themes, plotting, and meaning, even the worst painful lapse/cultural genre element fits in extremely well. It's just that doesn't the address the mega-WTF element for the viewer.
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posted by [personal profile] azdak at 03:03pm on 08/09/2020
I love your parents' reactions! Your father is not wrong here. Please let me know how they react to the more WTF elements when they get there.

As for Hu Ge, everything you say is true. Even the moments when Lin Shu briefly emerges never feel odd or contrived, even on the first watch when we have no clear idea what Lin Shu was like as a person.
 
posted by [personal profile] caulkhead at 02:03pm on 14/09/2020
I... think I might be hitting the WTF? elements about now. (I have a suspicion from spoilers I have not completely managed to avoid that they get even more WTF in an episode or so).

I am glad to know that they are genre-related because my internal monologue from the writer's room was going something like

FRIEND: Oh, hi, Xi, how's it going?
WRITER: Not so good. Written myself into a bit of a corner to be honest.
F: It can't be that bad. What's happening?
W: Really compelling plot, lots of emotional drama but the whole thing hangs on my hero interacting with his best friend for forty-six episodes without the best friend ever knowing who he is."
F: Best friend's really, really stupid?
W: But he's not...
F: Best friend's really, really shortsighted?
W: He's a general....
F: Some people really change facially between 19 and 30?
W: Oh, come on. Who's going to believe that??

F pulls up a chair. Time passes. Daylight dims, lights come on. Closeup on growing mound of espresso cups, crumpled diet coke cans, discarded sheets of scrap paper

F: GOT IT! Mysterious magical illness for which the only cure includes complete and utter change of appearance!
W: YOU'RE A GENIUS!


Edited Date: 2020-09-14 02:20 pm (UTC)
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posted by [personal profile] azdak at 03:14pm on 14/09/2020
Yeah, the complete and utter change of appearance as the sole cure for a barkingly mad poison definitely causes me suspension-of-disbelief problems, but barkingly mad, unique-to-this-particular-story poisons are indeed a genre thing (and even in The Story of Minglan, which is relatively restrained when it comes to genre elements, there is a sub-plot involving a poison which, unlike all other poisons (apparently) cannot be detected by sticking a silver needle in it. But I'm afraid there is worse to come (I say this because you say that you "think" you might be hitting the WTF bits, and believe me, when you hit the truly WTF bit, you will know). When you reach that ooint, I suggest you read the Langya Hall Diaries for comfort (here: https://qi-lang.tumblr.com/post/145919011060/lydiaries1), I found them a great help.
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posted by [personal profile] azdak at 03:51pm on 14/09/2020
Oh wait, if you're on episode 46 then you have in fact hit the moment of maximum WTF already.
 
posted by [personal profile] caulkhead at 02:52pm on 16/09/2020
No, I was still at episode 44 and 'weird mysterious poison.' As you will have gathered, I am now... not.

There is a more useful thought brewing somewhere about Jing's increasing isolation just as Lin Shu's begins to lift, and Shu's growing realisation that he can no longer shield Jing from the decisions required by Realpolitik or the consequences of those decisions, but mostly I am still going WTF SNOW BEETLES?
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posted by [personal profile] azdak at 04:11pm on 16/09/2020
I’ve watched NiF three times now, but I have to admit that I always skip episode 45. I cringed all the way through it on the first viewing - so much Fremdschämen on behalf of the actors - and ever since have done my best to pretend it doesn’t exist. I can appreciate it in the abstract as an externalisation of how Lin Shu feels about MCS, but as realised in practice it’s utterly cringemaking.
 
posted by [personal profile] caulkhead at 07:54pm on 16/09/2020
I hadn't realised it was fremdschaemen, but you're exactly right. Even Hu Ye projecting dignity and compassion as hard as he possibly can can't redeem... that.

The Langya Hall Diaries were indeed a great help, thank you!

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